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	<title>Comments on: 3M Carjacks the Post-It Note Jaguar</title>
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	<description>Interesting things going on in SEO, online marketing, Web content...</description>
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		<item>
		<title>By: Foster</title>
		<link>http://www.all-about-content.com/2008/09/3m-carjacks-postit-note-jaguar.html/comment-page-1#comment-3963</link>
		<dc:creator>Foster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 16:57:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.all-about-content.com/?p=429#comment-3963</guid>
		<description>Keep it up man.,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keep it up man.,</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick O'Malley</title>
		<link>http://www.all-about-content.com/2008/09/3m-carjacks-postit-note-jaguar.html/comment-page-1#comment-3813</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick O'Malley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 17:42:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.all-about-content.com/?p=429#comment-3813</guid>
		<description>3M stands for Modern Marketing Morons</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>3M stands for Modern Marketing Morons</p>
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		<title>By: darius draper</title>
		<link>http://www.all-about-content.com/2008/09/3m-carjacks-postit-note-jaguar.html/comment-page-1#comment-3812</link>
		<dc:creator>darius draper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 05:48:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.all-about-content.com/?p=429#comment-3812</guid>
		<description>This is standard ops for these Giants. Worked 18 years for this co. in illinois. Union shop. Shut the doors sent our jobs abroad. And sold the property to Toyota. Oh did I mention that They bullied their way by my lawyer to avoid paying any severence payout. I think your lucky they didn&#039;t somehow sue you for using the post its in some lewd display or fashion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is standard ops for these Giants. Worked 18 years for this co. in illinois. Union shop. Shut the doors sent our jobs abroad. And sold the property to Toyota. Oh did I mention that They bullied their way by my lawyer to avoid paying any severence payout. I think your lucky they didn&#8217;t somehow sue you for using the post its in some lewd display or fashion.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob</title>
		<link>http://www.all-about-content.com/2008/09/3m-carjacks-postit-note-jaguar.html/comment-page-1#comment-3789</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 16:53:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.all-about-content.com/?p=429#comment-3789</guid>
		<description>I have negotiated with 3M in the past, and this doesn&#039;t surprise me. 

I an email with images to one of 3M&#039;s business units and it was very well received. I got a follow-up email the next day requesting rates for a 20k run publication. 

After submitting rates that were very competitive, I received an email from them &quot;hoping they could provide me 3M products in leiu of a photography fee&quot; 

Sorry, 3M. Your products won&#039;t pay my rent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have negotiated with 3M in the past, and this doesn&#8217;t surprise me. </p>
<p>I an email with images to one of 3M&#8217;s business units and it was very well received. I got a follow-up email the next day requesting rates for a 20k run publication. </p>
<p>After submitting rates that were very competitive, I received an email from them &#8220;hoping they could provide me 3M products in leiu of a photography fee&#8221; </p>
<p>Sorry, 3M. Your products won&#8217;t pay my rent.</p>
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		<title>By: Nigel P. Chillings</title>
		<link>http://www.all-about-content.com/2008/09/3m-carjacks-postit-note-jaguar.html/comment-page-1#comment-3786</link>
		<dc:creator>Nigel P. Chillings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 19:02:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.all-about-content.com/?p=429#comment-3786</guid>
		<description>Rest easy, folks, the newest craze in social-media-user-sourced-and-generated-networked-poking is coming to help.  Spread the virus - isn&#039;t that clever!  Viruses!  They&#039;re contagious.  And sticky!

Like post it notes!

Too bad for the fellow with the original idea.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rest easy, folks, the newest craze in social-media-user-sourced-and-generated-networked-poking is coming to help.  Spread the virus &#8211; isn&#8217;t that clever!  Viruses!  They&#8217;re contagious.  And sticky!</p>
<p>Like post it notes!</p>
<p>Too bad for the fellow with the original idea.</p>
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		<title>By: Jerry</title>
		<link>http://www.all-about-content.com/2008/09/3m-carjacks-postit-note-jaguar.html/comment-page-1#comment-3783</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:47:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.all-about-content.com/?p=429#comment-3783</guid>
		<description>The key to copyright is to register the photo, video, whatever with the copyright office.  It costs only a file fee plus a copy to do this.  Some photographers publish a single copy volume each year The Photographs of John Jonesfor 2008. This means a single fee covers all photos.  After it is registered, a copyright suit with meaningful punishments is possible.  (I think $5000 per use-this could mean per copy of ad published.)  In a worst case the offender has already registered their copy as though it were the original.  Then a court battle with copies of all communication might make a difference.  What I would do is register the original the moment I got a preliminary query, then negotiate.
  In a side issue I know of a part time photographer who specializes in glamour, nudes, etc.  He also is employed by a public school.  Someone brought in evidence of his having a web site with &quot;porn&quot; pictures.  His school district brought in a complete set of pictures copied from the web.  The photographer-teacher brought in a copy of the copyright law, showing the district that they had violated his copy right with each copy and the decision was made to cancel the proceedings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The key to copyright is to register the photo, video, whatever with the copyright office.  It costs only a file fee plus a copy to do this.  Some photographers publish a single copy volume each year The Photographs of John Jonesfor 2008. This means a single fee covers all photos.  After it is registered, a copyright suit with meaningful punishments is possible.  (I think $5000 per use-this could mean per copy of ad published.)  In a worst case the offender has already registered their copy as though it were the original.  Then a court battle with copies of all communication might make a difference.  What I would do is register the original the moment I got a preliminary query, then negotiate.<br />
  In a side issue I know of a part time photographer who specializes in glamour, nudes, etc.  He also is employed by a public school.  Someone brought in evidence of his having a web site with &#8220;porn&#8221; pictures.  His school district brought in a complete set of pictures copied from the web.  The photographer-teacher brought in a copy of the copyright law, showing the district that they had violated his copy right with each copy and the decision was made to cancel the proceedings.</p>
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		<title>By: Melanie Phung</title>
		<link>http://www.all-about-content.com/2008/09/3m-carjacks-postit-note-jaguar.html/comment-page-1#comment-3781</link>
		<dc:creator>Melanie Phung</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 13:55:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.all-about-content.com/?p=429#comment-3781</guid>
		<description>Robin,

thanks for that very thoughtful and articulate response. I have to say that I find it personally gratifying when people like you back up my initial gut reaction that this incident qualifies as a breach of copyright. I&#039;ll pass your recommendations along to Scott.

The issue, however (IMHO), is not primarily one of legality. While a lot of the discussion seems to have veered off in that direction, the glaringly obvious, head-smacking stupidity of the whole thing is the PR backlash 3M has brought on itself.  

Corporations already have so many things going against them when trying to go viral, that bringing the original creators of the Post-it Note Jaguar on board should have been a no-brainer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robin,</p>
<p>thanks for that very thoughtful and articulate response. I have to say that I find it personally gratifying when people like you back up my initial gut reaction that this incident qualifies as a breach of copyright. I&#8217;ll pass your recommendations along to Scott.</p>
<p>The issue, however (IMHO), is not primarily one of legality. While a lot of the discussion seems to have veered off in that direction, the glaringly obvious, head-smacking stupidity of the whole thing is the PR backlash 3M has brought on itself.  </p>
<p>Corporations already have so many things going against them when trying to go viral, that bringing the original creators of the Post-it Note Jaguar on board should have been a no-brainer.</p>
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		<title>By: john wood</title>
		<link>http://www.all-about-content.com/2008/09/3m-carjacks-postit-note-jaguar.html/comment-page-1#comment-3780</link>
		<dc:creator>john wood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:54:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.all-about-content.com/?p=429#comment-3780</guid>
		<description>3M = big BULLY and SUX, PEROID.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>3M = big BULLY and SUX, PEROID.</p>
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		<title>By: Robin Lambert</title>
		<link>http://www.all-about-content.com/2008/09/3m-carjacks-postit-note-jaguar.html/comment-page-1#comment-3778</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin Lambert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 02:42:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.all-about-content.com/?p=429#comment-3778</guid>
		<description>There are a lot of emotional responses in the comments, and rightfully so.  My response was initially emotional but quickly shifted to legal thoughts as those are the means to teach a bully a lesson.  As a professional photographer knowing something about copyright law, although not a lawyer, it seems obvious to me that the original photographer&#039;s copyright has been violated.  Copyright law states that the photographer establishes copyright the instant the shutter is tripped.  If using a film camera, the film doesn&#039;t even have to be processed for the copyright to exist.  Protection for unprocessed or unpublished images would only extend to assistants and observers of the photo session as you obviously cannot copy something that you have not seen.  By the way, you cannot copyright or register an idea so ideas have no legal protection.  In this case the actual photograph appears to me to be &quot;substantially&quot; copied, or infringed.

3M fully admits to having seen the image by their attempt to license usage rights for &quot;in-store displays for six months.&quot;  Licensing for specific purposes is one of the contributing factors to the value, versus buying the copyright outright for any and all uses, which would have the highest value.  The fact that the photographer originally had no intent to earn money when taking the photo is completely irrelevant and in no way reduces the value.  That would be like saying that a Leonardo da Vinci sketch is valueless because he never originally intended to sell it like he did his paintings and sculpture.  That value is determined by the parties involved AND in the case of infringement, by history of similar sales, not only by the photographer in question but by other photographers as well.

To the Intellectual Property Attorney that said this is NOT copyright infringement I will only say that I have read of cases on much shakier ground win in court.  Also, you did not say which side of the aisle you sit on in court.  I agree with Mr. Heller&#039;s post and offer a couple more examples, the first substantially different from the 3M case but important in seeing the breadth of copyright infringement and how the courts protect producers of intellectual property.  There was a case of infringement brought against an artist copying a photographic poster of puppies in his production of bronze sculptures, completely different mediums.  (The photographer was notified by a colleague who new the poster about the infringement.  The photographer attempted to negotiate a fee with the artist before filing the suit.)  The artist lost the case.  As incredulous as it may sound, the artist did the exact same thing with another photographer&#039;s work.  This photographer filed suit after failed negotiations with the same results.  A very similar case to this 3M issue: a large company which I will refer to as GD attempted to lease a photographer&#039;s image of a wheel chair on a porch.  They did not come to terms.  GM actually provided a copy of the image (layout) to another photographer to emulate.  Nothing except the &quot;feeling&quot; and composition of the image was the same yet the judgment was against GD.

That&#039;s where the courts come in.  I have seen many photographers compensated generously in copyright infringement cases when their ducks were in a row, but that is no guarantee.  I have also seen cases that appeared to be legally strong for the photographer get thrown out, usually in a court that has had little or no experience in copyright issues or perhaps hiring a substandard IP attorney.  As has been mentioned in other posts, registration offers additional protections and rights.  But the copyright itself is established upon creation and as such affords specific rights.  A favorable court could even take into consideration the rates of other photographers for similar works and award an amount higher than the original asking price by the creator of the photograph, especially if he considers the infringement to be egregious [Merriam-Webster Online Dictionaryā€”conspicuous; 1.obvious to the eye or mind, 2.marked by a noticeable violation of good taste].

Often times big companies think that no lawsuit will be filed because of the uphill battle before the &quot;little man.&quot;  If I were the photographer I would approach the legal departments of ASMP (American Society of Media Photographers) http://www.asmp.org/, PPA (Professional Photographers of America) http://www.ppa.com, and/or APA (ADVERTISING PHOTOGRAPHERS OF AMERICA) www.apanational.com who have a long history of standing up for cases like this and see if they might like to help out.

I&#039;ll not get involved in a discussion as to what is fair compensation in this case but I will say that in my opinion 3M stole from the photographer by not being fair or friendly (copyright infringement is theft). Taking the food out of the mouth of a fellow photographer, professional or not, has forced me to reevaluate my future association with 3M and their products  Very sad because 3M had roots in the imaging business.  I might even line the inside of my barbeque grill with my remaining Post-It Brand Notes and fire it up in protest before I go and purchase a competitor&#039;s brand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are a lot of emotional responses in the comments, and rightfully so.  My response was initially emotional but quickly shifted to legal thoughts as those are the means to teach a bully a lesson.  As a professional photographer knowing something about copyright law, although not a lawyer, it seems obvious to me that the original photographer&#8217;s copyright has been violated.  Copyright law states that the photographer establishes copyright the instant the shutter is tripped.  If using a film camera, the film doesn&#8217;t even have to be processed for the copyright to exist.  Protection for unprocessed or unpublished images would only extend to assistants and observers of the photo session as you obviously cannot copy something that you have not seen.  By the way, you cannot copyright or register an idea so ideas have no legal protection.  In this case the actual photograph appears to me to be &#8220;substantially&#8221; copied, or infringed.</p>
<p>3M fully admits to having seen the image by their attempt to license usage rights for &#8220;in-store displays for six months.&#8221;  Licensing for specific purposes is one of the contributing factors to the value, versus buying the copyright outright for any and all uses, which would have the highest value.  The fact that the photographer originally had no intent to earn money when taking the photo is completely irrelevant and in no way reduces the value.  That would be like saying that a Leonardo da Vinci sketch is valueless because he never originally intended to sell it like he did his paintings and sculpture.  That value is determined by the parties involved AND in the case of infringement, by history of similar sales, not only by the photographer in question but by other photographers as well.</p>
<p>To the Intellectual Property Attorney that said this is NOT copyright infringement I will only say that I have read of cases on much shakier ground win in court.  Also, you did not say which side of the aisle you sit on in court.  I agree with Mr. Heller&#8217;s post and offer a couple more examples, the first substantially different from the 3M case but important in seeing the breadth of copyright infringement and how the courts protect producers of intellectual property.  There was a case of infringement brought against an artist copying a photographic poster of puppies in his production of bronze sculptures, completely different mediums.  (The photographer was notified by a colleague who new the poster about the infringement.  The photographer attempted to negotiate a fee with the artist before filing the suit.)  The artist lost the case.  As incredulous as it may sound, the artist did the exact same thing with another photographer&#8217;s work.  This photographer filed suit after failed negotiations with the same results.  A very similar case to this 3M issue: a large company which I will refer to as GD attempted to lease a photographer&#8217;s image of a wheel chair on a porch.  They did not come to terms.  GM actually provided a copy of the image (layout) to another photographer to emulate.  Nothing except the &#8220;feeling&#8221; and composition of the image was the same yet the judgment was against GD.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s where the courts come in.  I have seen many photographers compensated generously in copyright infringement cases when their ducks were in a row, but that is no guarantee.  I have also seen cases that appeared to be legally strong for the photographer get thrown out, usually in a court that has had little or no experience in copyright issues or perhaps hiring a substandard IP attorney.  As has been mentioned in other posts, registration offers additional protections and rights.  But the copyright itself is established upon creation and as such affords specific rights.  A favorable court could even take into consideration the rates of other photographers for similar works and award an amount higher than the original asking price by the creator of the photograph, especially if he considers the infringement to be egregious [Merriam-Webster Online Dictionaryā€”conspicuous; 1.obvious to the eye or mind, 2.marked by a noticeable violation of good taste].</p>
<p>Often times big companies think that no lawsuit will be filed because of the uphill battle before the &#8220;little man.&#8221;  If I were the photographer I would approach the legal departments of ASMP (American Society of Media Photographers) <a href="http://www.asmp.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.asmp.org/</a>, PPA (Professional Photographers of America) <a href="http://www.ppa.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.ppa.com</a>, and/or APA (ADVERTISING PHOTOGRAPHERS OF AMERICA) <a href="http://www.apanational.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.apanational.com</a> who have a long history of standing up for cases like this and see if they might like to help out.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll not get involved in a discussion as to what is fair compensation in this case but I will say that in my opinion 3M stole from the photographer by not being fair or friendly (copyright infringement is theft). Taking the food out of the mouth of a fellow photographer, professional or not, has forced me to reevaluate my future association with 3M and their products  Very sad because 3M had roots in the imaging business.  I might even line the inside of my barbeque grill with my remaining Post-It Brand Notes and fire it up in protest before I go and purchase a competitor&#8217;s brand.</p>
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		<title>By: tim buesing</title>
		<link>http://www.all-about-content.com/2008/09/3m-carjacks-postit-note-jaguar.html/comment-page-1#comment-3777</link>
		<dc:creator>tim buesing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 23:24:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.all-about-content.com/?p=429#comment-3777</guid>
		<description>Thanks Melanie for blowing &lt;a href=&quot;http://between0and1.wordpress.com/2008/09/17/3m-accidentally-monumental-pr&quot;&gt; my post&lt;/a&gt; out of the water with your earlier analysis.  Excellent post and so much background info. Working in advertising you know that 2K for a campaign buyout is ridiculously low sum. The 3M marketing person should be sent back to social media school at NMS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Melanie for blowing <a href="http://between0and1.wordpress.com/2008/09/17/3m-accidentally-monumental-pr"> my post</a> out of the water with your earlier analysis.  Excellent post and so much background info. Working in advertising you know that 2K for a campaign buyout is ridiculously low sum. The 3M marketing person should be sent back to social media school at NMS.</p>
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